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Hello all! Mainphramephreak here. I'd like the community to discuss whether we would like to activate the Achievement fuction.

AchievementsEdit

Achievements are badges that contributors can get for editing the wiki. Take a look at the following links to look at other wiki's achievements: [1] [2] [3].

How would they work?Edit

Achievements are given automatically to contributors of the wiki based on the edits they make. For example, if a contributor makes five edits to the wiki, they would get a badge. Others include adding pages to categories, adding images to pages as well as many others. It is also all automatic. No one has to "give" them to you. You get the badges simply by editing.

Would I get badges for past edits?Edit

Unfortunately, no. Gaining badges start once the function is activated and are not retroactive. That means that everyone starts on the same level.

What do they mean and why have them?Edit

The Achievement fucntion is kind of similar to the Special:Editcount, only more visual. Also, on other wikis, they have attracted new users and have brought older users back to the wiki. They aren't "important" nor do they make anyone "better" than anyone else. They are fun and add a new dynamic to editing.

Do I have to use them or see them?Edit

No, you don't. If we activate this function here, you can go to your "Preference" section and set it so that you won't see the badges on your user page and won't be notified if you gain a new badge. They would still be in the background and you would still accumulate them, but you won't see them. Sort of like the ads. If you want to see them, you can. If you don't want to see them, you don't have to.

DrawbacksEdit

I have only seen one major drawback from the Achievement function: multiple edits. More specifically, users purposely making several edits to one page in an effort to gain badges. I really don't see that being a big issue here. If it does become an issue, we can create policy to deal with it.

Closing commentsEdit

I have looked at this fucntion on several other wikis and I believe that it would be nice to have it here. Like I said above, it has the potential to bring in new users and bring back some that haven't been here in a while.

ProcedureEdit

Please indicate below your yes or no vote. Use a # sign and your signature (~~~~). If you do vote "no," please give a reason as to why you are opposed. Also below is a discussion section for questions, comments and concerns. I'd like to leave this discussion open for at least a month to allow adequate time for all opinions. Thanks!

UPDATE: Sarah Manley, a member of Wikia's community support team, has posted a blog about the Achievement function here. It doesn't include any more information than is already here, but it may in the future. ---- Willie - HtS 19:25, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

To follow on to the update, here is a help page on the central wikia: Help:Achievements. ---- Willie - HtS 14:00, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

How would we propose dealing with the ever increasing amounts of edits? We'll have an average contribution level and some highs and lows along a curve. That will change over time, though. When you have people reaching a certain amount and can't go any higher, what do you do? How do you allow the achievements to scale for an always increasing amount of edits?--Kodia 17:46, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

The achievements do scale for increasing edits. There are badges that I have seen that go up to one hundred edits. There are also the "lucky" edits, that is, those badges for the 1,000th edit to the wiki, 2,000th edit to the wiki and so on. After that, the list of badges is customizable by the admins. So we can add more if we choose.---- Willie - HtS 17:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
No I think you're not understanding what I'm trying to point out. Yes, I understand that we can set levels and add more if we choose (1-5 edits gets A badge, 6-10 edits gets B badge, and so forth). But what happens if the wiki gets hit with a LOT of editors who remain very active for quite some time. Suddenly the wiki has everyone with the final badge and no more badges to get. At that point then we have to go through the whole process again of figuring out more achievements. Sure, you might think that's not such a problem, but there's one catch: achievements are usually based on themes. Themes unify the ideas of a badge. They convey status. They allow a person to keep attempting to go higher.
Let me give you a very simplified example. Let's say our achievements are based around a theme of apprenticeship and mastery. Those 1-5 edits gives you an apprentice level. 6-10 gives you journeyman level. 11 or more gives you mastery level. Pretty soon all of our editors will have Mastery level. That's no fun. There's no more achievement to be had. Okay, you might think we just expand the theme. Well what comes after Mastery? Nothing. That's the top.
My point in discussing "scalability" is that if we choose a theme, and I think we'd be fools not to, then we need to choose an open-ended one or design ours to be infinitely scalable. We can't just choose the apprentice, journeyman, master theme and not also plan for what comes after when we need to expand. And I have an idea on how to do this, but I'm running out of time (I'm at work), so I'm going to leave the discussion here for the moment and see if anyone has any more comments.--Kodia 20:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
I definitely see your point. I agree we do need to choose a scale. Most of the other wikis that do use achievements have one and it makes the user have a better time editing and feel like they are doing more. The wikis that do have achievements and badges, have outlandish achievements that can only really be reached by someone who spends all day editing. Like get 50,000 edits or even 100,000 edits. As for levels that its technically not included with the achievements but we can add that by saying over a certain amount of points is a level. But to make people want to keep editing we would have a couple of extremely high levels that would take an extremely long time to achieve, maybe years to achieve, so users could always have a goal to get to. So mastery wouldn't be out of reach but just extremely hard to achieve in less then a year of editing. This is my thought at least.--OPTIMOUS 21:29, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
To follow on to that, I took a look at what badges users from other wikis have. There are some that are pretty high with regards to edits. So, Kodia, it does seem that, in a way, there is scallability. It looks like, to me at least, that users will get a larger number of badges right off the bat and then slowly tapper down. Also, I don't know if this is a glitch or not but, at least one user had multiple badges for the same achievement. I'll talk with Wikia today and ask about that.
Some other information that I found - points/levels and testing. It looks like badges are broken down into three levels: bronze, silver and gold. Those levels also give a user points, increasing by badge level. This point count would be displayed in the area where the edit count is now. Your edit count will still be visible next to your user name on your user page. As for the testing, it seems that the Achievement function is in beta testing right now. Wikia has said that they will soon have a page that will detail this function soon.
It is my opinion that we still try to have this function activated despite it being in beta testing. If we do, we could provide Wikia with feedback on how to make it better if we find any problems.
Kodia, does that answer your question or is there other information you would like? Thanks for the discussion, by the way! :) ---- Willie - HtS 14:52, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
I've never really had a question so much as a concern about planning. (My mundane job includes IT project management, so you'll have to forgive me for bringing things like this.) I think the idea is a good one for badges, if only because it encourages editing. But I want everyone to be absolutely sure that they don't paint themselves into a corner.--Kodia 05:00, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I don't edit much here, so I'm not really entitled to an opinion, and won't vote. But it does seem rather junior high to me, begging everyone's pardon. Fatidiot1234 22:03, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

You are entitled to an opinion, regardless of how much you edit and you can vote.
There has been that fear, on other wikis that have this, that the achievement function would be rather childish. The function is supposed to be fun and it is also intended to bring in new editors and bring back older editors. ---- Willie - HtS 22:39, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Yes VotesEdit

  1. Willie - HtS 14:40, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
  2. OPTIMOUS 14:45, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
  3. Ridlarehc 17:07, July 28, 2010. "Just bloody fantastic" --Mat Cauthon
  4. Mordsith - (talk|contr) 17:34, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
  5. Why not? Rahien 17:38, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
  6. I'm just gutted it starts now when i'm in my offseason rather than 2 years earlier--GuanYu79 1:43, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • Old edits can be counted and tallied by hand... -- nae'blis 03:12, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Kodia 05:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
  8. Rrius 07:16, July 31, 2010 (UTC) This could help keep involved people like me, who only started editing because of a book release and only came back during a re-read.
  9. Ronmamita 03:33, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
  10. Sounds fun :D — fbstj 12:00, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
  11. Ninjatacoshell 22:00, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
  12. Brilliant! Maybe we can assign ranks with the awards, such as Novice/Soldier, Accepted/Dedicated, Aes Sedai/Asha'man, etc.Friends225 15:09, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm having a hard time seeing a way to do that without fracturing/lopsiding them.. some sort of neutral naming system seems best to me.
  13. Tentatively in favor, though I think we should set the limits fairly high even from the start and add 'top level' achievements as necessary. -- nae'blis 03:12, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

No VotesEdit

While I am new to the wiki, one of the other wikis I'm part of tried this a while ago. The result was that some users, one of whom had never even edited on the wiki before, started making spam edits (i.e., one-word changes or useless rewording) to get achievements quickly. With some expeirience on this matter, I believe this might be a bad idea. -LeoLab 21:12, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

We would adopt fairly strict standards in regards to achievement boosting. Here, I don't think it will be that big of a problem. Do you know if it was a lot of users or was it just a few in relation to the number of regular editors? Thanks for the input! ---- Willie - HtS 22:04, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
It was one or two users, but that wiki has rather few editors (though that may change soon) -LeoLab 22:31, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Somewhat no; I contributed for the desire to have a comprehensive Wheel of Time wiki. I'm not in it for the badges, but also don't see a big problem with it aside from the boosting issue. Mhoskins 15:28, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

PolicyEdit

Following is the proposed boosting policy:

This policy deals with Achievement Boosting.

What is Boosting?Edit

Achievement Boosting is where a user makes useless or malicious edits simply to raise the count of their edits. The following list are examples of Achievement boosting, but they are not all inclusive:

  • Making nonsense edits to a page and then undoing them. Nothing about the page is changed.
  • Adding unrelated pictures to pages.
  • Creating nonsense pages or blog comments.
  • Creating or adding irrelevant or nonsense categories.
  • Editing a single page multiple times, adding very little information each time (i.e. one letter at a time).

What is not Boosting?Edit

Some edits may seem to be boosting, but may be legitimate edits. Additionally, valid contributions that coincide with the goal of gaining achievements is allowed. The following are examples of those:

  • Edit wars and reverts between a normal user and a vandal.
  • Multiple valid contributions made to several pages in a short amount of time.
  • Editing a single page multiple times, adding useful information, due to computer limitations or honest mistakes.

When Boosting HappensEdit

When Achievement Boosting happens, an administrator will first warn the user. If the user continues to boost, the administrator will block the user for one week. Subsequent boosting will result in longer blocks and, if necessary, a ban.