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Source:WOTRR 10 January 2011

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Brandon's Wheel of Time Reread on Twitter - 10 January 2011Edit

Brandon on Twitter - 10 January 2011 So, Rand on the rigging really must be an after-effect of channeling. But it doesn't HAVE to mean he did it on the night with the boat.

Brandon It could have happened in the days between, and... and I'm sounding like @theoryland, aren't I? You guys are a bad influence on me.

Terez If you actually hung out @theoryland you would never put such an unsupported theory forward for fear of our scorn. ;)

Terez Sometimes, Occam's Razor is your friend. Alas.

Brandon Ha. You want me to think your theories are all well-supported? You think I haven't heard @theoryland's Avi theory?

Terez Hey, that was MY theory. And it was way more supported than yours! hmph... (though I didn't believe it really)

Matt Hatch Ouch. I should get Jenn to do an Asmodean panel at JordanCon. I need an outlet for my glossary disdain.

Terez While all of us in the apathy camp think the glossary reveal was JUST PERFECT TAKE THAT YOU CHUMPS.

Matt Hatch Of course you were happy, because it was the apathetic way to reveal it...I really need that panel, Jenn!

Jennifer Liang Tell Shannan. I think we have room for another theory panel.

Terez Also, Moiraine clearly says that early unconscious channeling always comes in response to a desperate need.

Terez We know it was smooth sailing after they left Shadar Logoth, so no opportunity to make Rand channel.

Brandon Where did you get the idea that this was my theory? Just something I was curious about. :P

Terez Just from the fact that you were, you know, defending it. :p I know you said you had read it back in the day though.

Brandon Unfortunately, I don't really GET to have theories any more, since I can just look up the answers or ask Maria. :(

Brandon And the theories I do have I don't really get to post about, since they will influence the series end. Maybe once AMOL is done,

Brandon I'll pick a few things the notes are silent on, explain that they're silent, then jump in with some good, old-fashioned theories.

Brandon That won't stop me from making random comments as I read, though, so maybe those count as my theories.

Brandon I am keeping a list, though, to get answers on as I go. Already got a few, actually....

Terez That would be awesome. In the meantime, feel free to defend silly theories. It gives us something to do. ;)

Shannon Alexy Do you include the chapter Ravens on your EotW reread or not since it's not part of the original publishing?

Brandon I'll read it, I just have to dig it out. I can't remember where I stuck it.

...(This convo is sort of an aside...but Brandon commented on it, so here it is. It's in the middle of the wotrr stuff because it's relevant to the rough place in TEOTW where Brandon was actually least at first.)

Luckers I wonder if Whitebridge is made of spinglass. Does anyone have an answer?

Terez I always took 'spinglass' to be a WoT way of saying 'spun glass'. Very fragile. Also...

Terez 'The man opened his mouth to protest as citizens always did; they seemed to think Aiel were made of spinglass'

Terez Obviously fragile is what he's getting at. Now, if you could do it like cuendillar...that's different.

Terez Per Moghedien I get the impression there are many forms of cuendillar. Maybe iron is easiest.

Luckers That's a good point--I missed the spinglass = fragile reference. As for cuendillar... perhaps.

Luckers There is an argument in the same vein towards Callandor being cuendillar.

Terez Well, people argued Callandor=cuendillar because it stopped balefire. But if Perrin can do it... :)

Luckers There was also Osan'gar's comment during the cleansing that though the Choedan Kal would be destroyed...

Luckers ... he'd still have Callandor. Of course he could have meant to balefire Rand and attack Narishma. Still, weird.

Krit Petty Callandor is the most powerful sa'angreal without the Choedan Kal. He might just be noting the fact.

Luckers It's the expectation that he would have Callandor after he balefired the hill which is significant.

Terez He didn't say he was going to balefire the whole hill. Elza got his hill, though. ;)

Terez Strongest Rand could manage with fat man was man-thick. He could sweep it, but it's not necessary.

Luckers I did make that point, but it's weird, risking Narishma's response to the attack.

Luckers Rand was distracted, why not kill Narishma first, then Rand. Also Osan'gar links the balefire to...

Luckers ... Rand's death--"But still, he could take Callandor after al'Thor was dead."--as if it's a result.

Terez I read it as him seeing Rand as the only real threat.

Luckers Which is weird, in itself. Callandor circle responding to reversed webs--a scary, and impossible thing for an AoL'er.

Terez True, but he might have figured out the ter'angreal thing like Demandred, and he was at point blank range (for balefire).

Ruth Hinckley So if the cuendillar Egwene makes is white, why are the seals half black? Saidin-made? Different type of cuendillar?

Terez re: black/white, I always figured this was why Elayne couldn't get the colors right with the stone ring (no man).

Brandon @WoTLuckers @Lironah @Terez27 Now that's an interesting conversation. Re: cuendillar.

Terez lol, now I get to catalog the whole conversation because Brandon said it was interesting.

...(end aside)

Brandon Pop quiz: What is the first thing that makes Perrin hate his axe? (It's something I've always found very interesting about him.)

Brandon It's not Whitecloaks, though that's a good guess. Perrin thinks if the ravens attack, he'll kill Egwene & save her from a worse death.

Lori Elena Mele Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Elyas goading him about it didn't help either, as I recall.

Brandon Yes, Elyas all but taunted the truth out of him.

Brandon Regarding how Elyas goads Perrin in that scene: I'm sure he knew exactly what Perrin was thinking, and wanted to make him confront it.

Terez Well, yeah. Perrin didn't say anything about what he was thinking. Elyas said it all, exactly what he was thinking.

Terez Both his true motivations - choosing her death - and the motivations he feared (which were stupid, of course).

Brandon No. Elyas claims that he thinks Perrin hates Egwene. Which is dead wrong, and Elyas knew it. [Not sure if he saw the second tweet before responding.]

Terez Right, that's what I was saying. Both his true motivations and the stupid ones. Elyas mocks him for the latter.

Terez And then spells out what he really wanted: 'One clean blow of your axe, or the way the animals we saw today died?'

Terez It's not that Perrin was thinking he hated her. He was hating himself for wanting to help her, which was dumb.

Terez Which of course led to a philosophical conversation similar to 2nd Amendment debates. Which was ongoing, of course.

Terez Did the axe make Perrin more likely to kill? Than before? Than with the hammer? What about the sword, and the spear?

Terez I see it as Elyas very blatantly pointing out the flaw in Perrin's logic. He didn't hate her - that was exactly the flaw.

Terez Didn't hate her, but he hated the axe, and that was a good thing. Never stopped. (Another good cover @torbooks )

Brandon I love that in the scene in Four Kings, the fact that the innkeeper is thin seems almost as ill an omen as a flock of ravens.

Brandon I wonder if Mat wearing the scarf around his head here is foreshadowing intentionally, or by coincidence, of the scarf on his neck.

Brandon Either way, there's some other strong foreshadowing there of events in TofM, though I won't say specifics to avoid spoilers.

Brandon Not sure what I think of the "start chapter, flashback to what has happened since last chapter" narrative style RJ prefers here.

Brandon I don't think he does it as much later. In these first books, he seems more worried about characters going chronologically off of each other.

Brandon Note that I do like flashbacks, and think that Chapter 33 is interesting structurally. I don't know if it fits just right, though.

Brandon A good point: Some note that the erratic timeline here does help reinforce the sense of sickness from Rand and Mat's growing paranoia.

Brandon Also, it's fun that Mat is getting paranoid and crazy because of the dagger--except when he's thinking about food or a nice bed.

Shivam Bhatt What page are you on? Can you give chapter numbers so we can follow along?

Brandon I'm reading an ecopy that pages itself, so I don't know what page I'm on. But I mention chapters now and then.

Brandon One reason I post quotes is to show you where I am, since page numbers are meaningless for ebooks and I often forget the chapter I'm in.

Brandon Curious: First mention of the Fisher King concept happens when Rand is dreaming, still half-sick, in the back of Bunt's wagon.

Brandon Is this our first LTT moment? Bunt wouldn't have mentioned it, and neither would have Ishy. Unless it's actually something Thom said.

Terez I assumed was a True Dream, including Thom's connection to the queen, and Rand & Tam with the sword.

Terez But the first LTT moment was in chapter 9 when Rand recognized Shayol Ghul (and maybe Ishamael too).

Matt Hatch I'd say Ishamael recognition is a fact in Ch 9. There are some nice comparisons with the prologue.

Brandon Well, you probably have a point there. Though you might argue that this is a shade of LTT speaking to him, for the first time.

Terez I might, but I wouldn't. :D It's more interesting to me the other way, and Rand didn't dream Lews Therin's dreams much.

Terez He remarked on the strangeness of it in TPOD before Lews Therin came back (after having been chased away by Cadsuane).

Brandon Wait. What?

Terez I remembered it wrong. LOC19: 'Lews Therin's dreams. That had never happened before, not dreaming the man's dreams.'

Terez In ACOS41 while Lews Therin is gone, Rand still hears the voice in a dream.

Brandon Oh, I see what you're saying. (I think.) Is your argument this: "LTT doesn't talk to Rand in dreams. Therefore, this isn't LTT?"

Luckers I think deep down her argument is probably more 'LTT doesn't talk to Rand at all'. ;)

Terez Whether Lews Therin *really* talks to Rand at all or not, this would be quite atypical & strange. As Thom? Why?

Brandon Curious. So who do you think is speaking to Rand the Fisher King words, if it's not a LTT memory?

Terez It's a dream. Why does there have to be a 'real' ;) person involved?

Terez But I do appreciate the hint. :)

Brandon I don't normally dream things that happen to be word-for-word true prophecies. Rand's not a Dreamer. He got the info somewhere.

Terez Now I'm going to cry. :( Why can't Rand be a Dreamer?? So ch 9 was completely fabricated by Ishamael? That is weird.

Terez None of the other dreams influenced by Ishamael were anything like that. How did he create all of those people in Tar Valon?

Terez Why would Ishamael first prevent Rand from reaching Tar Valon, and then force him to go to the Tower? Makes no sense. :(

Brandon Lol. I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. Is there some theory on Rand being a Dreamer that I should know?

Terez I'm being serious. There's a hint Asmodean's warding might prevent True Dreams. Also...

Terez Egwene was guided to it, but Rand had no one to guide him if he was a Dreamer. And everything in TEOTW9 was true.

Brandon Either it's LTT, it's something someone told him in the real world, or it's Ishamael giving him the info.

Terez Maybe he had heard the KC from Thom at fireside on the way to Baerlon, though. Would make sense.

Terez Well, not on the way to Baerlon, since he mentions them for the first time in Baerlon. But maybe on the Spray.

Brandon I'll entertain an argument that it's basically 'known' information, or that Thom mentioned it.

Luckers Why would LTT speak as Thom? The moustaches baby, the moustaches.

Luckers Did you see my cultural idea? That it might be Rand's subconcious--like the way everyone knows the Dark One's name?

Brandon But it really seems like a memory, and we've never seen people mentioning it, while naming the Dark One we see.

Brandon I'll look up answers on this one for sure; right now, I'm just speaking by instinct. But I read the Fisher King concept as...

Brandon ...coming from LTT/Rand's subconscious and being fed through Thom's mouth as Rand's mind fit it into the dream.

Brandon I'm also pretty sure Rand's not a Dreamer, though he does have uncommon power over his dreams.

Brandon But he does not see specific prophecies in his dreams (other than a few debatable moments) nor enter Tel'aran'rhiod spontaneously.

Brandon But I'll look into it. I rebel against it because Dreaming is basically Egwene's thing.

Terez Also, didn't Perrin pretty much just show her that it wasn't HER thing any more? :p

Terez And yeah, I know his prophetic dreams only happen in Tel'aran'rhiod. But I just want a male dreamer dangit!

Brandon Perrin does something different. Also, Egwene was caught off guard and had been spending a lot of time lately doing other things.

Brandon It would be unwise to assume that Perrin is better at Tel'aran'rhiod than she is because of that moment. He had just spent weeks training...

Brandon ...specifically to fight like that in Tel'aran'rhiod, while Egwene has been forced to fight other fights and let herself get a tad rusty.

Terez haha, yeah I know. I have argued much the same against Egwene-haters. I did enjoy that moment though.

Terez Why do all the prophets have to be female? Foretelling I can see because of the taint, but the rest? Except Perrin.

Terez The Thom dream used to make me think I was missing something, or maybe a deleted scene. Very odd.

Terez Also, even with the taint seems like we should have had a male Foretelling by now, or a dreamer. Something.

Brandon Well, out of fondness, I'll let you know that I DO know of at least one male (other than Perrin) who can see the future.

Terez lol. The male Aelfinn?

Brandon Dang. You're too clever. Okay, then, I promise you there's actually a man--human--who meets your requirements.

Luckers By the way about my question re: Moridin's sexuality, my friend now thinks Moridin is in love with the Dark One... :S

Brandon I didn't catch the Moridin question first time around. Would you ask again?

Terez He asked if Moridin was gay since he's evil but doesn't appear to be interested in taking advantage of his pets.

Luckers What she said. He seems very asexual in general. The thought came after reading the Moghedien/Shaidar Haran/Moridin scene.

Luckers It's also not just that I think he should be raping them because he's evil, it's just there is a complete lack of interest.

Brandon As for your Moridin question, it is a good one. I'll look into it as well. I haven't seen anything either way in the notes.

Brandon "He was sure he would never get another chance to see a Queen, and he hoped he would never have another to see a False Dragon" --Rand

Brandon Ha. I had in my head that Elayne picked up her swearing habit while traveling--but here she is, already speaking oaths to burn Rand's ears.

Brandon What to say of Rand falling into Elayne's garden in Chapter 40? As a youth, I rooted for Elayne+Rand quite a bit. Until I met Aviendha.

Jera Perth Never Rand+Min? Seemed the coolest choice to me.

Brandon I like Min, but remember, when I first read this book it was the only WoT book. In my mind it was "Egwene or Elayne?"

Brandon I loved this sequence as a young man. What could be better than the hero of the book accidentally falling into a princess's lap?

Brandon Of course, because of lighter-fare fantasy novels, I thought Elayne would join him immediately and pretty much only be Rand's love interest.

Brandon It's amusing to look at myself 20 years ago, reading EotW when no others in the series were out & trying to guess where it would go.

Non sequituri

Thomas Grossnickle Aviendha's vision in ToM made me wonder, how much will we get to see of what happens to the world after the Last Battle?

Brandon RAFO. :)

FelixPax If the Shadow's male channelers are called Dreadlords, what are the female channelers called in the Blight?

Brandon Right now, most are called Black Ajah. But I see what you're getting at. I've always thought of Dreadlords as gender neutral.

Brandon I'll have to ask on that one. I honestly don't have the answer handy.

Andrew Sullivan Will far off lands like Shara or the Land of Madmen play an important role in the last book?

Brandon RAFO. Though RJ said we'd never go to Shara, at least not in any major way. He was less firm on the Madmen.

Daniel Beale Can both male and females access the True Power? Why does Cadsuane Sedai not question how Rand escapes from being collared?

Brandon Yes. And she doesn't have a chance.

Daniel She doesn't at the time, but afterwards why isn't she curious as to how Rand escaped being collared?

Brandon Cadsuane is curious about a lot of things. So yes, you are right. But she also is good at finding answers unexpectedly.

Adam Doward I've been wondering for ages is Mat going to wear an eye patch? Or will he wear a strip of cloth like Gemmel's Grymauch?

Brandon RAFO.

Ted Herman Is it error when Elyas told Perrin [in TEOTW] Ch 29 that no Hawkwing's kin stayed in Randland? (Mayene's Firsts claim kinship)

Brandon I haven't looked at it specifically, but my guess would be that Elyas doesn't know or believe the claims.

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