Talk:Rand al'Thor

From A Wheel of Time Wiki

Contents 1 Jesus 2 hand 3 King Arthur 4 Lucifer 5 Just something interesting 6 A weighty issue, haw-haw... 7 Rand merging with Moridin? 8 Rand & the true power

[edit] Jesus

• Wait, how was Jesus using powers usually reserved for women? nae'blis _(talk) 15:23, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
• There are some (myself among them) who might take umbrage at Jesus being referred to as a fictional messiah. Also, I don't recall Jesus having powers normally reserved for women. =`)

Excise at your discresion if you plan to write a more reasoned comparison. The article from WP had an empty Jesus section, which annoyed me, so I figured I'd make a childish joke.--Gherald 15:37, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)

• Waitasec. No one's forecast his ressurection? What about the following bit of the Prophecies? “Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, once for birth. Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul. In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.” Seems to me fairly clear that it's saying he's going to die then return to life, there. -- _{Coyote Seattle}
  • I would think it's possible to lose blood without dieing. --Gherald 23:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Rand my not be resurected again, but as the Wheel of Time turns, the Dragon will be reborn many times. Spewin 13:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• If memory serves, hasn't there been a lot of roundabout hinting that Rand will be resurrected by Nynaeve after three days of being dead? At the least, I'm sure she's talked about doing it, and that would match pretty identically to the Jesus resurrection. 129.237.90.15 04:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] hand

Which hand did Luke lose in Star Wars?--Cyberk 23:14, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Somebody with the last book in front of them want to remind me which hand he lost? nae'blis _(talk) 15:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Left. --TheParanoidOne 20:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What's the name of that hand torture Paul Atreides goes through at the start of Dune? I figure that's another similarity between Rand and Paul, because they both suffer hand pain early in their careers as messiahs (Paul from that bow thingy, Rand from the heron brand). The Dragon Preborn 16:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The hand torture that Paul Atreides went through on Caladan in Dune has no special name, as I recall. He was being tested to see if he was, ahem, human. Humans would be able to resist pulling their hands from "the box" which is the tool Mother Superior Helen Gaius Mohaim (not sure about the spelling of the surname) uses to test him, while animals would instinctively remove their hands. The box inflicts pain by nerve induction. So there was the box, and there was the gom jabbar, a needle-like object worn on the tip of the index finger, and coated with deadly poison, I guess, to motivate the testee to pass. When the Lady Jessica introduces Paul to the Reverend Mother, she simply says that Paul is going to be tested,or maybe observed.

Pedantic 17:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] King Arthur

Could you write a few words about the References of Rand to King Arthur? For exemple the idea of the sword what can be taken only by the real king/Dragon. Or the taking by Morgause(Moiraine Damodred) to Avalon(Tar Valon)? My English isn't good enough to write here. 84.94.210.183 16:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

So are:

• arthur --> artur Hawkwing
• morgause --> morgase Trakand

..similarities in name only? --Gherald 17:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Af course there is a real connection(not the name only). I mean you should write in this(Rand al'Thor) article about the references of Rand to King Arthur as you wrote his references to Jesus, Tyr, Paul Atreides etc. 84.94.147.118 19:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lucifer

For a long time (since somewhere in the mid 90's) I have taken for granted that RJ intentionally made parallels between the Dragon and Lucifer of the bible. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family, and read the bible a LOT, and it seemed obvious to me. I presented this idea to a couple of people, who thought that I was crazy, but I did a little research recently and saw that I was not alone:

http://www.tarvalon.net/library/index.php?title=Lews_Therin_vs._Lucifer http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=172 http://www.wotmania.com/blackboard.asp?TheoryID=432 http://www.wotism.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-5317.html

just to name a few of the pages that I have found.

Some important points:

• Name similarities. Lews Therin sounds vaguely like lucifer. Lucifer's title was something like Morningstar, or Son of the morning; and the lews/rand has been called, Lord of the morning, He who comes with the dawn,etc.

• RJ admits that Randland is our world in the past/future (WHEEL of Time), and that the characters in the books are supposedly the inspiration for our own myths and legends, and that people in our time are the source of Rand's myth's and legends. I don't remember the specifics, but somewhere in the series Thom (I think) lists a bunch of legends that included modern day astronauts. Paraphrase "Joe Schmoe flew to the mood in the belly of an eagle made of fire". There were others.

• • Alexander the great, Plato, Newton, Einstein, Jesus, Muhammad, Adolf Hitler, Julius Caesar, Buddha, etc might be considered Ta'veren of our time. I apologize if that list of names offends anyone. I was merely thinking of people who have had massive impacts on our world.

• • In the above paraphrase of Thom's(?) tail of an astronaut, I used the name Joe Schmoe, but I remember the name actually used in the book had a strong similarity to a modern astronaut. (Sorry, I'm not looking up all of these references right now.)

• Not all Christians and/or bible scholars associate Lucifer with Satan. The traditional Hebrew's did not, and I think that the current consensus is that they were not intended to be interpreted as the same person. I remember reading somewhere about the introduction of the association of satan and lucifer into current christian theology.

• • With either interpretation the theory still works, but it actually works better with the idea that Lucifer and satan are in fact the same person, because the dragon/serpent parallel below.

• Lucifer could be another incarnation of the Dragon, it doesn't necessarily have to be Lews Therin or Rand. Although it works well with the therin/lucifer association.

I will add more, and change things later. RobotSteve 21:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, RobotSteve, for a really interesting discussion of the parallels between Lucifer and Rand. I was ready to comment, guns a-blazin' over this issue until I surfed over to Wikipedia and read the article on Lucifer in preparation. It's a very long article, and makes some of the points clearly that you have made. It does clarify one point, however, and that point is the reason I will refrain from extended comment. There are many, many ideas about who or what Lucifer is. My personal opinion aside, to resolve this, we would have to go to RJ himself to get a final answer, and that, unfortunately, is impossible. So I will simply end this entry by saying that I will agree to disagree, if you will.

Pedantic 18:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting indeed, what if Rand is destined to not only slay the dark one but take his place? Maybe he kills the part of him that is Lews Therin (that part becoming the dark one) and thus proving "to live you must die" --Cyberk 23:20, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Just something interesting

I recently found out that the word "rand" in Old Norse means "shield". RJ obviously knew a little about ON, so I'm wondering if this could be intentional.

98.145.79.227 23:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A weighty issue, haw-haw...

I just wanted to ask where the reference for Rand's weight is - 23 and a half stone seems awfully excessive, even though he is a tall man. If a stone is 14 lbs (and not some entirely different unit of measurement in Randland) then this would place the Dragon Reborn at a hefty 329 lbs. And far be it for me to speculate here, but I must say Rand has never come across as being THAT muscular, and we know he isn't fat.

Just tossing it out there. (193.1.100.7 15:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC))

• There is in fact a different meaning of stone in Randland. The article on measurement here has that 10 ounces = 1 pound, and 10 pounds = 1 stone. If we assume that an ounce weighs the same, 23.5 stone would come out at around 146lbs which seems light for a tall, athletic man. If rather we assume that a pound is equal between us and them, then it would just be 235 pounds. Of course, the units of length are also different, and with Rand coming in at 1 span, 5 inches (according to his article here), this would be 65 Randland inches. If an inch is the same here and there, he's only 5'5" (in which case 146 would probably be a reasonable weight). On the other hand, if a foot is the same here and there (regardless of being different numbers of inches), then he'd be around 6 and a half feet. As far as I'm aware there's no way to determine what the actual, correct conversion is between their units and ours. 141.214.17.5 14:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rand merging with Moridin?

Ok here is my thought. What if through the crossings of balefire during the shadar logath chase of sammael, rand and moridin some how became connected(which we know) and are slowly "merging" as in the way min's viewing says. We know the merging wasn't rand and lews therin because they have always been one as he said at the end of TGS. This would explain 1. The reason he could use the true power 2. Why he has that "blackness" around him when people look at him. This is just a theory so I guess I shouldn't update the page but what do other people think?--OPTIMOUS 23:22, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Rand & the true power

Woah, i mean, Woah, i didnt see that one comming! iv been trying to research the how into this and come up with nothing. one of mins vewings saying him becoming 3. possibly using saidene, sidar, and the true power, or becoming lews therin moridin and rand althour? maby to lock the dark one away he needs all 3, to draw from moridin? maby when moridin is defeated this may be possible. i dont rearly know and im just throwing out ideas. anyone got any suggestions?

What I wonder now is if Rand has somehow Healed his fractured mind to become sane. Will this mean that he still suffers the nausea and dizziness when he tries to channel? The other thing that confuses me is if Lews Therin and Rand were always the same, where did the memories, images, talents and using weaves that haven't been used since the first age come from?? Will Rand no longer have access to any of these things now?

With the introduction of the information from TGS, here is what I think happened. Rand always had the memories of Lews Therin, being Lews Therin reborn. His soul, if you will, was the same. When Rand found that he could channel, and all of the stress that comes with it (i.e. the madness), it was a blow to him. To also have memories of his previous life popping up would, in my opinion, probably drive him more insane. I believe that Rand's subconsious was trying to protect him and therefore gave his past memories their own personna. This way, Rand could believe "Hey, this is what happens when someone is reborn specifically, this is what happens to the Dragon Reborn." At the end of the book, he finnaly came to terms with the fact that he has the memories of Lews Therin and that Lews Therin wasn't just in his head. Again, only my opinion. Hope that makes sence. ---- Willie ^LLAP 13:36, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

What if Rand uses the True Power itself to seal the dark one? as any other power will need to touch the dark one thus making it possible for the power used to be tainted?--Cyberk 23:25, November 10, 2009 (UTC)